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Roy: ...presentation of what you are going to do. But at the same time, I want to interject in the last questions about the bats, because what we want is original content to put on the website, not just our basic verbatim definition that is out of the catalogue. Easton Flex vs. Stiffness EASTON GUY: Let's do it with this bat. OK. This is the Stealth Speed. It is a two piece composite bat. It has a connector. The reason for the connector is to... Roy: Right. OK. Now. What is the difference between the two bats? EASTON GUY: This one is a 75 Flex and this one is a 95 flex. Roy: What does 75 flex mean? EASTON GUY: That is has more flex. The composite is... Roy: So for example, a 75 flex is more flexible, more whippy, than an 85 flex. Rob: What does whippy mean? EASTON GUY: What is going to happen with this bat is that this has a connector on it. This is the Stealth Speed with the 75 flex. What it does is it is basically a two piece composite bat with a connector here. If you are a big power hitter, you don't want to have too much flex in your bat because it is going to drag behind in the strike zone. If you are a big guy and you are swinging the bat, when you swing...If you saw this in slow motion you would see the bat...This handle is going to... Roy: Bow. Or bend. EASTON GUY: Right. Now if you have a strong swing and you swing hard, the thing is going to flex more than this one. You can see kind of almost how this one is a little bit thinner. Rob: So what part of the bat is that? EASTON GUY: This is the handle. Rob: OK. So at the top of the handle it is thinner? EASTON GUY: No. It is over here. Our flex point...The great thing about our bat is, see, our flex point is up here. So we have a flex point... Rob: So it is higher on the bat than competitor bats. EASTON GUY: Correct. What happens is when you have a higher flex point, the bat is not going to drag through the strike zone. To make it even better we have the connector here. What the connector does is the connector...It is a kick point. So what is going to happen is when you swing this bat, it is going to flex. And then because there is a connector here, and it is like a two piece deal. See how it is two pieces? When they make the bat, they cut this and they drop the handle through the middle. Then they put the rubber connector on. It gives you a flex point. So what is going to happen is it is going to hit, it is going to flex, and then the barrel is going to kick forward to give you more bat speed. Rob: Is it like a spring? EASTON GUY: No. It is a rubber piece. It is two pieces so it gives it more flex. Rob: So two pieces of metal and a piece of rubber in between? EASTON GUY: Take this bat and step on it. Look how much this thing flexes. See that? If I take this one, and this one is a 90 flex, I have to press harder, but it is still going to flex. It is a composite bat, so it is still going to flex, but I have to press harder on it. Roy: That transfer of energy from swinging a stiff bat, if you are physically capable of swinging a stiff bat, that energy that you are going to produce going through, that kick point, is going to generate more hit speed and more bat speed, hopefully translating into a harder hit, further distance, and that type of thing. Rob: So more energy goes from the bat into the ball when it is a stiffer bat. Roy: Right. So if you are a slighter build kid... EASTON GUY: If I am getting up there and Roy is getting up there, I don't have a lot of bat speed. I am not a big guy. I play softball. Most people are like me. They are going to go with more flex. Rob: An average hitter or a normal hitter is going to use a bat with more flex because they can't swing the stiff bat? Is it heavier? EASTON GUY: No. It just won't give me as much... Rob: You can't get the advantage out of it. EASTON GUY: Exactly. I can swing both these bats. This bat is going to give me more flex. It is going to get through the strike zone faster. Rob: The 75 is? EASTON GUY: Yes. The higher the number, the less flex. So if you showed me in slow motion taking cuts in a cage with this bat and with this bat, you will see the bat head on this bat get through the strike zone quicker than this bat. This bat is going to lag a little bit for me. Roy: So it is almost like custom fitting the bat for the particular style player. EASTON GUY: And then you add in that this is made out of composite and it is not made out of aluminum. How Easton Makes Bats Now when you make a composite bat, what they do is they lay it out like a piece of cloth. So they cut it. Composite is completely man made. So they can really take the composite and make the composite any way they want to make it. They take whatever minerals and whatever ore, or whatever they put in it. They make it to their specifications. It is completely man made. So when they make it, it is a sheet. They take it and they... Rob: Make a sock or something? EASTON GUY: No, they cut it. Like when you see a seamstress making garments, they cut this pattern. Then what they do is they roll it and they heat it. And they roll it and it heats, and heats, and heats until they get it to where they want to get it. So this started out as one piece. There are no seams on it. I mean you can't see anything...well you can probably see one if you looked for it. And then they put the end cap on and they put the butt cap on. Rob: So it is like fiberglass or carbon or whatever the materials are? EASTON GUY: Yeah. It can be carbon, fiberglass, there is glass in here. Whatever is in here, that is how they make this bat. When they make an aluminum bat, aluminum bats are {?extruded}. Rob: From a sheet of aluminum? EASTON GUY: No. It is a big tube, a huge tube. And then they put it through this machine, and they keep putting it through and putting it through until they get it to be exactly where they want to get it. Now aluminum is also manmade, but they can't control the flexibility and the flex points and the composition as well as they could with the composite. Rob: Right, because it is one atom. It is just aluminum. EASTON GUY: There are additives, and they put things in here to make the composition different. They can change the composition, but they can't change as much as they can change composite...They can actually almost like build this how they want to build it. They can change the flex points on here. They can really do whatever they want, which also makes a composite bat...You are going to have more of a sweet spot on a composite bat. Rob: So is the material different in the barrel than it is in the handle? Roy: It is exactly the same. EASTON GUY: This is kind of what the pattern looks like. Rob: Like a weave? EASTON GUY: That goes throughout; they just put a graphic on it which covers this. Rob: Is that white paint there? EASTON GUY: They do a paint finish that has got a clear finish over it. So basically this is painted and then there is a clear finish over the paint. Roy: So for example, just to get back to the other two speed bats, same bat except for they have the different flexes. Rob: What causes the flex? Is it the flex point or is it the material that the bat is made out of? EASTON GUY: Both. To change the flex, it is more of where the flex point is and how...With these two bats, if they flex points are over here, maybe they put a little bit less carbon in here or less glass, and that is what makes it more flexible. Or maybe they thin it out on the inside a little bit. It all depends on how they build it. Rob: But the material is different. Like different ingredients? EASTON GUY: No. It is the same composite. It is more how they build it. Rob: I think it is more important that people know that only certain types of people can use a stiff bat and benefit from it. EASTON GUY: Not that they can't use it...Maybe I like using a stiffer bat. That is why they make it. A guy like me could use this bat. I won't get as much bat speed, but maybe I get a little bit more power. Roy: I think the way to describe it is you will benefit greater in using that bat that is more for your strength. If you are a big strong guy, the stiffer bat will enhance your swing, your ability... Rob: Because it will get across the plate faster and more energy will be transferred to the ball? EASTON GUY: Right. Roy: Absolutely, as opposed to swinging that bat that is going to be a little bit more whippy. Rob: Can a big guy tell a difference when he is swinging the two bats? EASTON GUY: He probably could. If you are a college player you definitely could. If you are a kid who is playing rec baseball and he comes in here to buy the bat... Rob: Right, but you are saying a top 1% type player would be able to...Blindfolded, he can tell the difference between... EASTON GUY: Absolutely. Roy: So those two top of the line bats...I mean, yeah. The difference is flex. That is it. Rob: I think y'all explained flex to where I understand it. But I want to do a video of that later. EASTON GUY: They are both composite. And again, they have a bigger sweet spot. Rob: When you say they, the family? Both of those bats have a bigger sweet spot? EASTON GUY: A composite bat is going to have a bigger sweet spot. Rob: Oh, just by definition? EASTON GUY: A composite bat is... Rob: Even if the shape is exactly the same as an aluminum bat... EASTON GUY: If I hit a ball over here... Rob: Now what part of the bat is that? EASTON GUY: That is the lower part of the barrel. I am not going to hit the ball as good as if I hit it in the meat of the barrel, but you can still hit the ball and... On an aluminum bat we have what is called the O-zone. This is an aluminum barrel and a composite handle. So we can control the flex with the handle over here, but the barrel is aluminum. Rob: What bat is that? EASTON GUY: This is the SB-12. The sweet spot here...We kind of define where it is on the bat. The sweet spot is from here to here. That is called the O-zone and that is the sweet spot of the bat. This bat is a solid composite bat. Rob: When you mean solid, do you mean one piece? EASTON GUY: One piece. See how this has the connector? So this is a two piece connector and this is one piece composite. By definition, a one piece bat is going to have less flex than a two piece bat. So this one is 75. This one is 95. Rob: With a connector. That one is 90 without? EASTON GUY: Right. This is 90 without. So this is solid composite no connector. Again, when you swing our bats the flex point is going to be about here. My competitors, when you swing their bats, their flex point is going to be above their hands. Rob: In a wood bat, where is the flex point? EASTON GUY: Down here right above their hands. Wood bats have a lot of whip. Roy: Just as a comparison, just to interject, this bat, which is the BCM 1 one piece composite bat, it would be comparable to last year's BZN 1; same bat, different graphic. So 2010, 2009. EASTON GUY: What we do and what most companies do notoriously when the new bat comes out, a lot of times for two or three years it will be the exact same bat with a different name and a different graphic. Rob: So is it like cars where they have a model year and they will introduce a new Mustang...? EASTON GUY: It is not even like that. In the Mustang they will put a new radio in and change the interior colors. Here it is like this bat is exactly the same bat as last year, but just different colors; different name, different color. Roy: The first two, the BSS 1 and BSS 2, we would compare with the BCN 9. However, in the BCN 9 they have pieces left, so it is really not... EASTON GUY: But also, with the Hit Matrix bat we only had one flex. We didn't have two. We went to flexes this year. We only had one flex last year. So this is solid composite. EASTON GUY: Now this is an Aluminum barrel, notice the difference in the sound. Big difference. Now some people will buy the bat just because they like the ping. A traditional person who likes an aluminum bat, they like to hear that sound. They like to hear that ping sound. With the composite bat it is more of a thud. Other people like the thud better. It sounds like a wood bat more than traditional aluminum. With the aluminum bats it is the same thing. We have two different flexes. We have a 65 and a 90. Rob: Are those exactly the same shape? EASTON GUY: Same shape. Rob: And the flex comes from the way they... EASTON GUY: If you look at it, the handle is going to be a little bit different. It is really not noticeable. This handle might be a little bit thinner, but you really can't tell, though. Rob: But the difference in the flex comes from the engineering on the inside? EASTON GUY: Right. So this is going to be more flex, less flex. Same story as this except you have an aluminum barrel and you have a composite handle. Rob: What model numbers are those, the 90...? EASTON GUY: This is the SV-12. Rob: And that is a 65? EASTON GUY: Yes. BSB 2 and BSB 3. Roy: The BSB 2 is the SV 12. That is the same bat. And then the BSV 3 is also the SV 12, just with a different flex. Rob: So what is SV 12? Is that like the family? EASTON GUY: V 12 is the alloy they use to make the aluminum. Rob: So is that the family or the model...? That is confusing to me as a consumer, because it is like there are four different names on a bat sometimes. EASTON GUY: Look at it this way. If you look at the composite bats... Roy: Isn't it for scandium? EASTON GUY: Yeah, that is probably what it is. Roy: S stands for Scandium, which is the grade of aluminum they make the bat out of. V-12 is kind of towards the brand? EASTON GUY: Yeah. Well if you look at it this way, Stealth's are going to be the two piece composite bats. Rob: How many different Stealth bats are there, four? EASTON GUY: There are two in the -3's. They Synergy bat is the one piece composite. So Synergy, one piece, Stealth, two piece. I always remember SV 12 and V 12 because SV, it's SV. Then we have the solid aluminum bat which is the green one up there. That is the V 12. So SV has two pieces. SV is two letters; SV-two piece. V-12-one piece. The SV-12 comes in two flexes. Aluminum, composite, and with connector. And then you have the V-12, which is the green one up there, which is solid aluminum. Same alloy as this, but one piece. Roy: I think it is the same story. In the SV-12's you have the BSV 2 and the BSV 3, and the difference is flex, similar to the Stealth bats that we did where the BSS 1 and BSS 2, basically those are composite shaft, composite barrel. These are just composite shafts, metal barrel. And then again, two different flexes. EASTON GUY: As far as, 'Hey, what do I want? Do I want a composite or aluminum? What is better?' I have always felt personally that the composite bats hit better. That is my own personal feeling in seeing stuff hit. But there are a lot of people that prefer the aluminum to the composite. They like the way the bat feels. They like the ping of the barrel. They think the ball goes further on the aluminum. They are all BSR certified, so they all have to be legally... Roy: They are under the speed limit? EASTON GUY: Right. They are at the BSR. You can't say that one is a much better bat because it is way above the BSR. It is not. They are all the same. Rob: And they are all engineered to be just enough to pass? EASTON GUY: Right. Rob: So they are as hot as they can be without being too hot? EASTON GUY: They are as hot as they can be. So again, it is all preference. To me this is the bat. Rob: Who would use these bats? EASTON GUY: These are -3 bats, so these can be anywhere from like high school, college, or maybe like a 13, 14 year old travel team where they need to use -3's, or a junior high school league where they need to use -3's. So these are like adult baseball bats. Roy: Again, to go back to a comparison with the BSV 2 and BSV 3, we compare the last year's BSV 1, which is also an SV 12 bat but it is just in an '09. It is the same thing, just from last year. This year they give you two different flexes, where last year they didn't have a flex. But again, for all intents and purposes you can compare the 2010 to that 2009 bat. So that is a good comparison to say... Rob: Sure. Well how many different bats can a player choose from as far as -3? EASTON GUY: It depends on a couple of things. A, how much money do you want to spend? Rob: Say he wants the best bat for what he is doing. EASTON GUY: Say I am 6'6' and I am a big power hitter, and I really like using composite. Well I am going to go with this one. Rob: But in the baseball bats that are -3, are there six bats? EASTON GUY: As far as Easton? Those are what I consider the high end bats. There are six of them. Rob: Do you guys do good, better, best as far as families? EASTON GUY: Here is the thing. It all depends on what you feel comfortable with. Rob: But as far as price points. EASTON GUY: These three. Rob: So the Synergy, the Stealth Speed... EASTON GUY: The composite bats. You might want to say by composite, by aluminum composite, and by aluminum. These three are the same price. Rob: So three different buckets of bats. EASTON GUY: Right. There are three different price points, one, two, and three. Rob: What is retail? Roy: $400, $300, $200. Rob: What is the $400? EASTON GUY: These are $400. Roy: The BSS 1 and the BSS 2 are $400. The BCM 1 is $400. The BSV 2 and BSV 3 are $300. And the BV 2 is just a regular straight wall aluminum bat at $200. EASTON GUY: Which some people actually prefer. Rob: But they could have made that bat 10 years ago, right? EASTON GUY: Not with that aluminum. That V-12 alloy was not available 10 years ago. The alloys that we use in the bats, like this V-12 alloy is...Every two years, pretty much, they come out with a new alloy. The whole goal is to make the bats thinner, more durable, not crack or dent easily, and not break down as much. Rob: But still hit up to the edge of as hot as it can be without being too hot. EASTON GUY: If you have an aluminum alloy that breaks down and gets soft, and you spent $200, you are not going to be very happy. Rob: So how many hits do you have? EASTON GUY: There is no answer to that. It depends on, like a car, how hard do you drive your car? How many miles can you get out of a car? You can have a car for 40 years and drive it on Sundays to church and come back, or you can drive 250 miles a day. Rob: But because of warranties it is reasonable to assume... EASTON GUY: It is warrantied for 400 days. Rob: Is that a marketing thing? EASTON GUY: We say 400 days because nobody is going to use a bat all year. Rob: So that overlaps the season? EASTON GUY: By a little bit. Yes, a kid is going to buy this bat and then he will play summer, travel, and then maybe a high school season, and then he will play on in a winter league or taking hitting lessons during the winter, but a lot of times if you take hitting lessons you are not going to use your game bat when you are hitting in the cage. You just spent $400 on a bat. You are going to use your old bat. Rob: Special occasions? EASTON GUY: You use it for games only. And then you have another bat that you use in the cage. And then you use your old bat, and then you use this one again until this one is kind of...You feel that it is dead. Everybody has got their own feeling about the bat; the bat is dead, the bat is not dead. Rob: It is so subjective? EASTON GUY: It is so subjective. Say a kid is hitting this bat great and then all of a sudden he goes into a slump. He will say, 'OK. It is probably the bat. I gotta get a new bat. This bat is dead. Dad this bat is dead. I need a new bat.' That is generally what happens. Would you agree? Roy: Yeah. EASTON GUY: Sometimes a bat will crack or it will dent or something will happen physically to the bat. That is something completely different. Composite bats crack. Aluminum bats also can crack and dent. Rob: How does the return process work? EASTON GUY: You buy a bat, you have it for a week, you swing it, and the bat breaks in half. You have to contact Easton directly at the warranty replacement department and then send the bat back and they send you a new bat. Rob: How long does that take? EASTON GUY: It could be anywhere from a day, which I had happen to me last week, to a couple weeks. I had a guy whose son was going down to North Carolina to play in a college showcase tournament. He has the Synergy Speed and it cracked. It was actually a friend of mine from town who I sold it to. He said, 'Listen. I need this bat. He is going away.' So he said, 'I will pay for the overnight and everything.' So I called him up and they just overnighter him the bat. Rob: Bats don't have serial numbers, so how do you know that somebody got the bat...They would have to have a receipt. Does it have to be from a licensed...? EASTON GUY: For us it has got to be from an authorized Easton dealer. It can't be from eBay. It can't be from Paypal. It has got to be closeoutbats.com. It has got to be Bob's sport shop or whatever. It has got to be an authorized Easton dealer. EASTON SENIOR LEAGUE... Roy: George, let's move to senior league. EASTON GUY: Senior league bats, the bats are pretty much...When you are talking about composition and you are talking about...And it will be the same with the little league bats also. It is the same theory. They are the same. What senior league bats is they are like a tweener. Rob: By that you mean the age? EASTON GUY: Compared between the -3 market and the little league market, it is a very small market. A lot of times it is centralized to certain areas of the country. Where like in Long Island, these bats are pretty much non-existent. They either play with little league or they play with -3. That is just the way the rules are out there. I always look at the senior league business as the Wild West. Because with the -3 bats there is a control on it with high school and with college. They will tell you that you have to use a -3 bat. Here is what you can use. They tell you. Most of the other organizations that run youth baseball, Pony League, Cal Ripken, little league, Dixie League, USSSA, they have their own standards, but for the most part everything follows along with little league's. Little league has really strict standards, so mostly everybody else says, 'Hey, if it is good for little league, then we are good with it.' Sometimes they like to get a little bit of a money hit, so USSSA will say, 'Hey, you have to put USSSA on the bat. You can't use it unless you put it on the bat, and we are going to charge you to use the logo. So that youth baseball market, which is like from four or five up until 12, is pretty much set in stone. Rob: Because of whatever little league does. EASTON GUY: And the high school, college market is set in stone because of NFHS and the NCAA says this is what it is. That is kind of set in stone. That little area which is like travel all, 10-13, is like the Wild West. There are all kinds of little leagues going on. A guy in New Jersey started his own league. There is ABC, there is Cal Ripken, there is senior little league. Each league plays with different rules, and each league in each town plays with different rules. Roy: So diameter of barrel and weight ratio, inch to ounce ratio, varies. EASTON GUY: These are like the Bam-Bam bats. These are big barrel bats that are really light; -10's. These are bats that generally will have a really big barrel and they are really short, and very light. You might even have it where you are playing in a league and you can't use a big barrel bat. But then when you get to a tournament they allow the big barrel bats in the tournaments. Rob: So what types of players would be using these? Are these like the serious players who are going to travel ball? EASTON GUY: Most of these bats are pretty much...You are done with little league. Then by attrition, the kids that aren't really big players are going to drop out. These are the kids that are mostly playing summer and travel. This is mostly a travel ball club ball bat. Roy: However, in certain pockets of the country, like in the South, at a young age, 7 or 8 years old, some of them do use a big barrel bat. EASTON GUY: it is like the Wild West. It is like I can't tell you, 'Hey high school kids are all going to use BSR certified -3.' Rob: It totally depends on... Roy: Where you are, what league you are in... Rob: That is why it is hard to pinpoint. EASTON GUY: That is why I call it the old west. There is no rhyme or reason for...I could be in Wayne, New Jersey and there are two senior leagues going on. ABC says, 'Hey, you can use these.' And then on the other side of town they have a Cal Ripken that says you can't use them. Rob: But the consumer knows what they can use and can't use based on the league that they are in. EASTON GUY: They will tell you, 'Hey we don't allow senior league 2-5/8 inch barrel -10's. You can't use them. You have to use -3's,' or you can only play with -5. Rob: So on the website now we call them... Roy: Senior league. Rob: But if they can't use...But those are the big barrel...? Roy: Right. We don't define like, 'Hey, if you are in such and such you can use this.' EASTON GUY: Generally, what they will do is they will go by -5,-10...They will say, 'Hey, you are not allowed to use -10 bats in this league. You can use a big barrel, but you can't use -10. You have to use -5's.' Roy: We can't define what you need to use. They have to define it for themselves, because there is just so much from town to town, state to state what they use that we can't define it. We supply it in different weight ratios, like this bat is a -5, this bat is a -8, this bat is a -9... EASTON GUY: Like this bat might come in a -5 version and a -10 version. Rob: So would it make sense in the senior league bat section to have sub-sections based upon drop, and have like all the -5's together? EASTON GUY: If somebody is shopping by -5 or -10, yes. Rob: So shopping by drop might be a.... Roy: I like that. Ignore that man behind the curtain. EASTON GUY: Comment from the peanut gallery! Rob: Shop by Drop. That is my trademark, by the way. Roy: What we have here is we have a sheet. And when we say, 'Where are you playing or do you know what your drop is?' we have it broken down as, 'Hey, here are our senior league bats,' but we also have it broken down by drop; 10, 9, 9.5, 8.5, 8, 5... So right here in this vicinity, in this immediate area, which is not popular anywhere, we do a lot of -5's. So when somebody comes in and says, 'I want a -5,' we go, 'OK. Here are your seven choices.' That's it. Rob: OK. But that would be really helpful on the website, I think. Roy: I think so. EASTON GUY: You know what I would do, too, on the website? On the title I would write what the barrel is and what the drop is, and obviously it is in descending price order, but we want to make sure that they don't start opening up bats going, 'Oh S#!%. I can't use this one because it is -9.' Before they click on it, I want to let them know like, 'Oh, I can't use this one. Oh, this one is a consideration. OK. Here is another one.' Rob: Another thing is barrel size and drop. EASTON GUY: We wanted to make only the 2-5/8 inch barrels on these. Roy: 2-3/4 inch barrel bats are not the norm now. They are getting away from that. Are there some out there? Yes. Do we have some? Yes. Most of them are last year's bats. Rob: Are these wider? Roy: Wider. It is 2-3/4 and 2-5/8, so that eighth of an inch difference is the difference between the two. I would say by next year you are probably going to see all 2-3/4 bats go away. And actually, your 2010 line has no 2-3/4. EASTON GUY: Zero. Rob: Because they are not legal in certain...? EASTON GUY: Well they see the trend and they are selling way less. Most of the leagues probably say, 'Hey, -10, 2-5/8. -5, 2-5/8.' So most of the leagues have been getting away from the 2-3/4 and they pretty much agreed that they should be doing 2-5/8 inch, not 2-3/4. So just by dumb luck, that is probably how it is working out, and they probably looked at what is going on, and they looked at theirselves ad said, 'Hey, we are selling four to one 2-5/8 inch to 2-3/4. Let's just not make them.' Rob: So by itself the industry is moving towards that. It is not being forced by some government... EASTON GUY: Not the industry, the leagues which in turn are driving the manufacturers to do 2-5/8. I could see this category, in a few years, going away, personally. I think they will come out with certified -3's. And I think that at some point in the next 5-7 years this will be eliminated. Rob: But in senior league bats, it is the same issues we were talking about on the regular bats, as far as the composite versus the hybrid versus the all aluminum, and then one piece versus two piece? EASTON GUY: They look graphically the same. It is the same bat. It is just structured different. It is full composite. Has the 90 flex on it. Same bat. And the little league bat is going to be the same bat also. Rob: Is it the same shape? EASTON GUY: No. It has got a bigger barrel. It is a shorter bat. I mean this is a 32 inch at, but this is a -10. Roy: Can you put a definition on the flex rating? For example, if I am looking at a number and it is a 90 flex rating. Is there a definition of, 'Hey it is a 90 flex. That means that the bat will flex one inch per 90 pounds of pressure.' EASTON GUY: I don't know that there is a technical...You would have to call like Matt Arn. He might be able to give you that information. I don't know that there is a technical...There is not a chart that says this and this. Roy: What we can say though is the higher number the stiffer the bat. EASTON GUY: 100 is the stiffest. Roy: Right. Higher the number, stiffer the bat. Rob: Is there a 100? EASTON GUY: Yeah. We have an aluminum at that is 100. Rob: And that one up there is a 90? EASTON GUY: 65 is the least, which is going to be this bat. The SV-12 aluminum barrel, composite handle is going to be the...Basically, this...The aluminum might swing a little bit lighter than the composite, so it is going to make it a little bit more flex. Roy: What is VRS rating and hitting area rating? EASTON GUY: VRS rating is the vibration. So on a... Rob: Is that for sting? EASTON GUY: Yeah. I should have mentioned that. With a connector this is going to reduce the vibration. Rob: Is that the main benefit of the connector? EASTON GUY: No. It will reduce vibration and it gives you a kick point to the bat. The flex is really going to be in the handle. So if you saw it in slow motion, you would see this thing flex and the barrel is going to snap through. So it is going to kind of kick through. This is basically like a hinge. So it is going to flex, hinge, snap through. Rob: So the connector is a hinge? EASTON GUY: That is basically what it is. It is a hinge that is going to kick the barrel through. But what it does because of the rubber is it is going to reduce the vibration. Rob: Is that like a secondary benefit? EASTON GUY: That is one of the primary benefits. Getting technical again, when you swing a bat in cold weather, this is not going to help you. Rob: How cold? EASTON GUY: Out here, when the kids start playing, they start going out on the field like in March. It is going to 45 or 50 degrees out. The thing is going to sting like a mother. It is not going to help. Bats need to be warm when you swing them. Rob: So do y'all make a bat heater? EASTON GUY: We don't. Other guys do. Rob: Do they really? I was just kidding. EASTON GUY: Basically, what you do when you are going up to bat and it is cold, is you stick it between your freaking legs or sit on it. Rob: Does the affect the performance of the bat, the temperature of the bat? EASTON GUY: Absolutely. Like anything, an alloy or aluminum is going to contract or expand depending on the temperature. So when it is hot out it is going to expand. It is going to make it more elastic. Rob: So there is more flex when it is hotter? EASTON GUY: Exactly. A lot of times they will put in there not to use under 60 degrees or something. With a composite, if it gets cold you have more of a chance of cracking a composite bat or denting an aluminum one. If you went outside in 35 degree weather to swing, chances are you are probably going to dent your bat. But that is why, again, with a brand new expensive bat, you are not going to do that. If a kid wants to go out back and hit balls with his father when it is 35 degrees, you do it with a piece of S#!% bat. Roy: Just to get back to the product for senior league, in the Speed bats you have one that is a -10, the BSS 11. EASTON GUY: You probably couldn't tell a difference between a little league bat and a senior bat or a softball bat. Rob: The drops and stuff are very confusing. EASTON GUY: My daughter plays fast pitch softball and I want to go buy her a bat, let's say. If I didn't know anything about bats, I wouldn't know why that bat is different than this bat. Rob: They are both 32 inch bats. Roy: Why can't they use this for softball? What is wrong with this for softball? Rob: What is the main difference in the $400 bat and the $200 bat for adult baseball? The materials in the $400 bat are more expensive? Roy: I will tell you what I think it is. The story is probably that it costs more to make the composite. I mean it probably does take more to produce the composite, research it, make it, engineer it, produce it, and sell it than the aluminum. But I think a lot of times, and I don't know this for a fact, but my feeling is that, 'Hey. It is a composite. It is something different. We can charge more money because it is a composite and not aluminum.' You have heard sometimes products that they charge less for and then the product that they are making that they are charging more for and it costs them less money to make the more expensive one that it does the second tier one. Roy: Yeah. Maybe it cost them $20 to make an aluminum bat. It maybe costs them $15 to make the composite bat. But they are going to charge you $400 for this one and $300 for that just because, hey, it is composite. Rob: That is what the market will bear. Roy: Last year what they did...They screwed up big time. We had this thing called Hit Matrix last year. All the bats are the same price. Basically it backfired on them because the story has always been, 'Hey, the two piece composite bat is the best bat on the market,' which I still think it is. But this is an all aluminum bat and we are going to charge $400 for each one because there is a hitting system. They are all really good... Rob: Depending on how you hit; what type of hitter you are. Roy: So basically the way it worked out...And every dealer felt, 'Why the hell are you ripping me off?' Rob: They were boosting the price of what would have been the cheaper bats. Roy: They were charging a dealer like $275 for that and then the dealers were charging $400. This year, that same bat that they were charging $275 for, now it is $105. And now it is $200 retail. So now you know how much they were ripping everybody off. Rob: But they were trying to make everything equal? Roy: They were saying that because of the hitting system...This explains it pretty well. Composite, composite, solid/composite. Aluminum/composite, solid aluminum. Up top you have two pieces. On the bottom you have one piece. This really kind of explains it. This will tell you exactly how it works. Rob: Explain like the difference between clutch instinct reaction velocity. Are those just marketing names? Roy: Those are just words. On the composite bat you get more of the hitting area and more of an energy transfer because of the two piece and you get the vibration. If you go down, you get the same hitting area as that other one, and you are going to get more balance because there is no flex. Rob: So it is a stiffer bat? Roy: Yeah, and you get more solid feel. Rob: Which one was that? Roy: That is the solid composite. Rob: But what is the brand? Roy: That is the Synergy. That is the white one now. These are last year's bats. Then you go to the SV-12. It is an aluminum barrel and a composite handle. You are going to get better bad speed because that is the lightest bat. You are going to get the transfer because it is a two piece bat. You are going to get the VRS, the vibration control, because of the connector. And then the bottom one is solid aluminum. It is going to be control... Rob: So stiffness is more control? Roy: Yes. So you get stiffness, more solid, and you are going to get more bat speed. And then the bottom one is solid aluminum. It is going to be control... Rob: So stiffness is more control? Roy: Yes. So you get stiffness, more solid, and you are going to get more bat speed; lots of bat speed for a power hitter. Rob: Can you walk me through those...In the first one, the Clutch, the CXM composite. The massive hitting area comes from it being a composite bat. It has a larger sweet spot. And then max energy transfer is because it is a two piece bat and not a one piece bat. EASTON GUY: Because of the hinge, when you swing you transfer the energy. Rob: And the ultimate vibration reduction comes... EASTON GUY: Because of that VRS, that rubber piece there reduces the vibration. The top two will have the VRS reduction and the bottom two wont because they are one piece. Rob: And then if you go over to the reaction, the difference between it and the clutch is that... EASTON GUY: One has got a composite barrel and one has got an aluminum barrel. And one is going to have more flex. One is a 65 and one is a 75. They have both got the Hit Matrix. Rob: So the main difference between the Clutch and the reaction is that the top half of the bat is composite versus aluminum... EASTON GUY: And the flex is bigger. The bottom two are both one piece. One is composite, one is aluminum. Roy: They did get away from doing that, though. Rob: I can see what the benefits are... EASTON GUY: No, they didn't really get away from it. We still have it, we just changed the prices. The only different Hit Matrix they added, they just added a stiff flex on the those top ones, those top two. They thought, 'Hey we want to have a little bit less flex,' so they added one to that one and they added one bat to the top one. The two bottom bats are exactly the same. Rob: But the Hit Matrix helps me understand...Those are the benefits. If you tie the benefits to the feature, which we have done for the past hour, but seeing it in one spot is helpful. So I think I might mix up something like that. EASTON GUY: That is the deal with the senior league bats. And then little league bats, I don't know if you can bring them down. They are just... Roy: Well I think we discussed this yesterday. Again, skip the top ones for the moment. The Speed bats, basically you are looking at them as -9, -11, -8, and -13. Rob: So the only difference is the drops? EASTON GUY: Correct. And again, depending on where you are playing and what is popular, I sell a lot more -13's. The -9 is a power hitter bat. I sell the least...I mean I sell 13, 11, and 9. Roy: You have really got to be a big strong kid to swing the -9. Rob: So as the drop drops, it is a heavier bat? EASTON GUY: So let's just pick 30 inches. 30 inches and a -13 is 17 ounces. -11 is 19 and -9 is 21. Roy: Those two ounces are going to make a difference. But most kids are like wimpy kids. They can't swing a bat. So they want the less bat they can swing... Rob: Faster bat speed? EASTON GUY: Little bit more control. Keep in mind, when you are playing little league they are 45 feet away pitching. I mean they are on top of you almost. So the ball is there quickly. Roy: Then you have the SV-12's. The V-12, it is a lot different this year because of the price structures. The V-12 is now more of a price point bat. It is a solid aluminum bat. It has turned into like a price point bat. Remember when I was telling you that last year they were all the same price? The SV-12 and the V-12 have turned into a price point. So the parent might say, 'I don't want to spend the money on the composite. The SV-12 is a connection bat. We will spend a little bit less money. We will spend $50 less on that one.' They get that one instead. Rob: Then what are the other ones? Roy: Those are last year's bats. The Synergy is from last year. EASTON GUY: But what we will do is we will match those. I am going to match those up. Rob: I think on the website we should have a place to where if there is a last year's version of this, or two year's ago version of this... Roy: You could put like, 'This year's Synergy is this price. Also available is last year's model at this price. Compare this and that, and...' EASTON GUY: Again, everything kind of follows suit all the way down. And then when you get to softball, softball is a little bit different. Only because in men's slow pitch softball... EASTON SOFTBALL EASTON GUY: A men's slow pitch softball bat could also be used for modified. We play slow pitch softball which is a high arc. Then we play, especially in this part of the country, a lot of modified, which is the guys can throw straight and throw fast, but not as fast as the women in fast pitch. But a men's bat is a men's bat. Most men never use a slow pitch bat. Rob: And they are all the same length? EASTON GUY: They are all 34 inches. Rob: Why do they do that? I played on a softball team and I am a foot taller than one of the guys on the team. EASTON GUY: I have no idea. It is just the way they do it. But there are different ratios. They start at 26, 27, 28, and 30. There is no 29. Does anybody make a 29? Roy: Yeah. Mikken, Worth... EASTON GUY: That is the weight. Rob: So a heavier bat is going to be harder to swing, but if you can swing it, it is going to put more energy in the ball? EASTON GUY: I swing a 28 ounce bat just because that is comfortable for me. Now there are guys on my team who are bigger than me and they swing a 26 ounce bat. And then we make the bats in a two piece and a one piece, composite and aluminum, same thing we do with everything else. Rob: The drops in men's softball, are those some are legal in some leagues...? EASTON GUY: Generally the only thing they do in softball is some leagues don't allow you to use composite bats. Roy: Well what about ASA USSSA? EASTON GUY: Let me explain that to you. There are different softball leagues like there is Little League, Dixie League, etc. Rob: It is USSSA? EASTON GUY: USSSA. United States Softball, whatever it is. ASA is the biggest one. USSSA is probably behind ASA. And then you have lots of little ones. You have NSA. You have ISF. ASA is the biggest and most popular, because in fast pitch softball as opposed to slow pitch softball, it is all ASA. So they have taken some of their clout with fast pitch and kind of moved it over to slow pitch. They all have their own regulations. ASA is the strictest. Rob: So are all your bats ASA? EASTON GUY: No. The ASA bats are...With an ASA bat, the exit speed ratio is ??????95 MPH. So when they do their tests, they put the bat on like a fixed thing and they have a ball and...It is fixed. So they get to where it is going to be the same. So it is 98+ for ASA. Everybody else is 100+, and those bats are all completely illegal for ASA. They won't use a non-ASA bat. They will have ASA in a little home plate on it, or they will say USSSA approved or NSF approved, whatever. But again, if I play the USSSA league, they might say that you can't use composite bats. You have to use only aluminum bats. Roy: Well let's look at the bats. In the top right you have the white, the white and the green, and the white and the red. EASTON GUY: Those are all non-ASA bats. Roy: Right, but what is the difference between the two? EASTON GUY: With the Synergy bats there are four of them, OK? We have two one piece bats. I'm sorry, those are the same. Those both have a 13 ' inch barrel on those. One is end loaded. The BH is end loaded. The other one is not end loaded. Rob: So just the balance is different? EASTON GUY: Right. It is heavier at the end. They put a weight... Rob: Which one is heavier, though? EASTON GUY: The BH. The red one, I believe. It is the same thing with the two piece composites. One is going to be end loaded and one is not. Roy: So the difference between Stealth and Synergy is... EASTON GUY: Stealth is two piece. Synergy is one piece. But that is the same here. Synergy is going to be one piece. Stealth is two piece. Rob: So that is across the line? Stealth is always going to be two piece? If it said that somewhere, that would be really helpful on the website. EASTON GUY: But also, you have go to remember. Stealth is two piece composite. Rob: Always a two piece composite? EASTON GUY: Because the SV-12 is two piece, but it is an aluminum bat. Rob: So by definition, the... EASTON GUY: The SV-12's are all going to be two piece aluminum composite. Rob: Synergy, is that always a composite? EASTON GUY: In bats, yes. Synergy is going to be one piece composite. Rob: OK. And then stealth is going to be a two piece... EASTON GUY: Two piece composite. Rob: And then what are the other brands like that? EASTON GUY: The SV-12 is going to be an aluminum barrel and a composite handle. The V-12 is going to be solid aluminum. That is going to be the same for baseball, little league, senior, slow pitch, fast pitch. Roy: However though, the BSN 1, which is not up there, but see the Synergy plus George? That is a two piece bat. EASTON GUY: But that is from last year though. Anything new... Rob: So we can't say that across the site, because we sell stuff that is two and three years old. Roy: It is almost correct, but it is not. Rob: No wonder I am confused! Every year they change... EASTON GUY: For 2010 it is correct. Rob: From here on out is it going to be that way? Is it who knows? OK. Then we will deal with it as it comes. So the differences between men's softball slow pitch. Roy: The SCN 16 and SCN 16 BH, they are both Synergy bats. They are both one piece composite bats. The difference is that the BH is an end load. And they are both USSSA bats. They are non-ASA bats. Rob: So why would somebody use an end load bat? Roy: End load bat would generally tend to be more for like a slow pitch softball where it is more of like a lob pitch. EASTON GUY: Because it is end loaded it is going to generate a little more bat speed. But the thing is you have to be comfortable swinging that type of bat. Rob: Does it feel off balance? EASTON GUY: Yes. Roy: If you are swinging at a pitch that is just lobbed in, it is easier to swing. If you have a guy that is throwing hard in what they call modified, it is a little bit harder to control. EASTON GUY: It is going to slow your bat speed down a little bit. Roy: You have to be a strong guy to swing that bat. EASTON GUY: Arch pitch is a different kind of game, because in the arch pitch there is like unlimited arch where the guy is just like lobbing the ball up. These guys are just waiting for the pitch to come and then they are just whacking the ball. With the modified it is almost like baseball. You have to sit there and you have to hit. With these guys, they are giving them a beach ball to kind of just turn around and swing as hard as they can. With the end load, what it is going to do is it is going to bring their bat through a little bit more quickly, but it is harder...I play modified. I mean there are guys that use end loaded bats to play modified. I would never use an end loaded bat. To me it is uncomfortable. Roy: But again, getting back to defining the difference between those two Synergy bats, the SCN 16 and the SCN 16 BH, the BH is the end load and the regular 16 is not end load. They are both USSSA bats period. That is it. So you can't use them in an ASA game. Rob: So it makes sense to have bats sorted by what league...? EASTON GUY: It is difficult. I will tell you why. If you sort it by ASA and say these are ASA bats, one league might say that you can't use composite ASA's. Roy: Also, too, you can use an ASA bat for USSSA, but you can't use a USSSA bat for ASA. Rob: So if you are in the less strict league, we could have a less strict league bucket that would include ASA and USSSA, right? EASTON GUY: If you are playing men's softball, you pretty much know what you can use. I mean they will tell you up front. If you are in Long Island and you are playing in an ASA league, you can't use a composite bat. Roy: Here is the way I would define it. You can have a USSSA bucket and you don't need to have anything else, because anything else you could use...In other words, you can't use that bat anywhere else. EASTON GUY: What you need to do is you need to put a bat and say, 'Synergy slow pitch bat, Brett Helmer, for use in leagues including USSA, ISF,' because it is stamped on there. Rob: I am just wondering if it would be easier for someone to go shopping for a bat. If they wanted to shop by USSSA we would include all of the ASA bats and all the USSSA bats. There is some filtering that we can do. We are not even using the search technology that I want to use to where people can actually go through and click little buttons... Roy: But the problem with that is that if you click on a bat that is an ASA bat and I buy this really neat composite bat, 'Oh it is ASA approved. I can buy it. Excellent.' You get the bat, go over to the game, and the ump says, 'Nope. No composite bats.' EASTON GUY: Well that is a rule within the rule. Roy: Right. But what I am saying is you don't want somebody going on and saying...To me, the most ridiculous thing is that ASA has rules that are very stringent. But then a local league will say, 'Well you can't use that bat.' It is stupid! For me, why play by ASA rules? Rob: But a guy will know that his league won't allow it before they buy a bat. EASTON GUY: It is only aluminum. You can't use any composite. Rob: So we could have something where people could check off 'aluminum only'. There can be like three different...Pick one of the three or all three. Show just the aluminum, just the composite, or just show the hybrid. Roy: What about if you have a category that says, 'Exceeds 98 MPH exit velocity?' EG: But those guys don't know the technicality. They just know they can't use a composite bat. They don't know why. They don't know that it is 98 or 95 or 100. They don't know any of that stuff. Rob: But that 98 or 95, that is an ASA rule versus a...? EG: Utrip. They just know, 'I need a bat and the guy said I can't use composite bats.' It is ASA and you can't use composite. That is all they know. Rob: Well I have another thing, not just Shop by Drop, but just a way of doing filtering. We will have to go in and tag these bats a certain way. VN620043 EG: So that is the two Tri-Zones and then the... Rob: When you say Tri-Zone, what is that? EG: Well the Tri-Zone is that SCN 16 and SCN 16 BH. Those are the Synergy bats. Roy: They are all Tri-Zones, all four of them. Rob: What is Tri-Zone? Is that a marketing term? EG: If you look at the catalogue it explains what it is. I don't really use it much. Roy: You are fired George. Actually that bat is not even in the catalogue. EG: The SCN 2 is not. Do you have SCN 2's? Are you going to get them? Roy: Huh? EG: Did you order SCN 2's? Roy: What is that? EG: That was that special made I thought you said you didn't want. Roy: Oh. It was a USSSA bat only. Rob: So it is north and south of the sweet spot is the Tri-Zone? EG: I don't think anybody is buying this bat because it is a Tri-Zone. They are looking at it as a one piece or two piece bat, I am pretty sure. And then when you go to the ASA bats...Now in the ASA bats we have what is called the Reveal in the slow pitch. It is a solid composite or two piece composite bat. And what it is is the bat changes color if you try to tamper with the bat. One of the reason why a lot of leagues outlawed, and ASA stopped selling or was allowing composite bats, is that composite is very easy to alter. You know, you roll a bat. So what this does is allows you to see if a bat is rolled. Rob: That is nuts. Roy: So the SSR 1 Stealth Reveal, two piece composite bat. And then when you get into the SRV 1 and SRV 2... EG: The same thing. The Stealth's are going to be two piece. The Synergy's are one piece. This is just a one piece composite bat with a 13 ' inch barrel. Rob: So is that a bigger barrel? EG: It is a longer barrel. Rob: So that means a bigger sweet spot? EG: Yes. Now the SRV 2 ahs a smaller barrel. It is 12 inch but it is end loaded. Rob: And that is just preference? EG: That is really more of a genuine slow pitch bat. Roy: Wait, like the shell? Rob: Yeah. Why would somebody get something...In slow pitch, the ball is coming so slow... Roy: Right. So the 12 inch shell is a little bit less surface to hit with... Rob: So if you can put that ball on that bat where you want to... EG: You are going to have a greater sweet spot, like a more defined sweet spot, but that is more of like a real slow pitch bat. And then the Synergy Clear is a 13 ' inch. It is the same as this bat. The only difference is that they make it out of a different makeup, a different composite makeup which lowers the price. So when they put in the composite, these are different composites. This one is like $124. It is a lot less money. Rob: Is that retail? EG: Retail on that one is...What do you retail them for? Roy: What is that? EG: The Synergy Clear. Rob: SCL 1. Roy: $200. EG: And then again, you have the aluminum composite and the solid aluminum. And then when you go to fast pitch, again, it is completely different. VN620044 EG: Fast pitch, like I said, is a completely different animal. You are going to go more to like a baseball type weight to length ratio. Here, again, in the Stealth, two piece composite. These are all ASA approved. There is nothing else. So here you have the two piece composite bats. You have a -10 and a -9. What is your ratio of -10 to -9 you sell? Roy: Much more -10. EG: Way more -10. And again, those go with different... Rob: The -10's are lighter? EG: Yes, an ounce lighter. On a slow pitch bat all you have is 34. This goes from 30 to 34, -10 and -9. Then you have the one piece Synergy again, the Stealth Synergy; one piece, 29-44. Rob: Why 29? EG: Younger kids pretty much. Those are one piece bats, -10 and -9. Then you go to the Synergy Crystal. It is again a different makeup. It is a different makeup of composites. It is a $124 bat. That is a -11. So that is a price point bat for somebody that might be even younger. So you have a 29, -11 in that. Rob: So what age? EG: These bats, 29, -11, anywhere from 9-10 year. And then you have the two piece aluminum. We changed the color on this one and this one only because it is more girl oriented colors. So we have the silver and the teal aluminum composite and then the one piece aluminum, and this has a different barrel design. This thing has a flare barrel. Some people call it the bottle bat. Rob: The V-12? EG: Yes. That is a -12.5. That is really light. This one is a -11.5. So on these two bats, you do see high school and college players using them. If they want something really light they will go to that V-12. But generally you are going to see them using composites. That is an aluminum composite. And then these are all going to be solid aluminum bats. And it starts going down in price point. These are all price point bats. Rob: Do we sell all these or not? Roy: The Reflex we carry. Those other ones, no we don't. EG: The Reflex, out of all the bats, is probably like the price pointed bat that high school kid would probably still use. After that it is kind of...If you are a high school player using a Typhoon, you can buy that bat on the corner. On a Saturday afternoon, if you go to any rec field in the country, there are little kids using that bat. I mean that goes down to 25/15. That might be my best selling item that I have in the catalogue. Rob: As far as the number of units? EG: It is like a $10.50 bat. Everybody has got that. That is like a ridiculously stupid good selling bat. If the league is buying bats for the kids, that is the bat that they will buy. Rob: What is the performance difference between a $10 bat and a $200 bat? EG: There are two things we have to remember. One is if you put a $10 in the hand of a kid that can hit, the kid is going to be able to hit with a $10 bat. They may not get as much power, distance, or bat speed... Rob: Or have the control? EG: Or control, but they will be able to hit. If you are a 15 year old girl that is playing travel softball and you can't hit, you can't hit with that bat and you can't hit with the other bat. Rob: But when somebody can hit... EG: The performance will be much different. Rob: I know with a guitar...Like with a $300 guitar and a $3,000 guitar there is a huge difference as far as...I am an intermediate player. But an advanced player can just... EG: There is a huge difference. If I am going to pick up a guitar, for me to use a $3,000 guitar or a $25 guitar is not going to make a difference. If Eric Clapton picks up the two guitars, it will be completely different.

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